France In Curfew

France In Curfew
2005.11.09 4:59

This sounds very strange and unusual.
Soon after I wrote about the days in the last moment of Nazis defeat in Paris, turmoil in France had just started. Human damages are so far minimum, but still very dangerous. I never realised French started setting fire on their own beautiful city, but they have been doing. It's unbelievable.
This is a perfect example turmoil would occur once delicate balance was broken. Indeed we live in a very unpredictable world. Nobody can tell what will happen tomorrow.
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It's not the French(Score:2)
by Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) * <seebert@seeberfamily.org> on 2005.11.09 5:15 (#13981649) (http://www.informationr.us/ Last Journal: 2005.11.22 5:13)
Most of the rioters so far have been Islamic Arabic Immigrants. It's unclear what exactly they're upset about; 50% unemployment among young men in that community is certainly a part of it, as are recent antiterrorism measures such as not allowing young Islamic women to wear Hajii to public schools.
--If you don't like the reaction- don't do the action. Isaac Newton applied to ethics.
Re:It's not the French(Score:1)
by eglamkowski (631706) <eglamkowski@noSpaM.angelfire.com> on 2005.11.09 6:11 (#13982287) (http://www.angelfire.com/nj/eglamkowski Last Journal: 2005.11.24 4:05)
Although, to be fair, rioting, rebellion and revolution ARE in the french tradition. As is brutal government suppression of such things, which is what we are NOT seeing in this case.
--Government IS the problem.[ Parent ]
Re:It's not the French(Score:2)
by Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) * <seebert@seeberfamily.org> on 2005.11.09 6:36 (#13982611) (http://www.informationr.us/ Last Journal: 2005.11.22 5:13)
True enough- it was supposed to be our tradition as well, but Americans have grown soft and pliable. The largest outrages of government and corporations barely get a shrug, let alone a riot anymore...
--If you don't like the reaction- don't do the action. Isaac Newton applied to ethics.[ Parent ]
Re:It's not the French(Score:1)
by eglamkowski (631706) <eglamkowski@noSpaM.angelfire.com> on 2005.11.09 8:33 (#13983705) (http://www.angelfire.com/nj/eglamkowski Last Journal: 2005.11.24 4:05)
Sad but true :-(Now pass the beer and the remote! :-p
--Government IS the problem.[ Parent ]
Re:It's not the French(Score:1)
by weierstrass (669421) on 2005.11.09 22:16 (#13988063) (http://retropolitan.blogspot.com/ Last Journal: 2005.11.25 9:47)
These communities are now largely second gen immigrants from Arab North Africa, but also sub-saharan africa. So they are mostly french in nationality anyway.Unemployment is a big problem, as for youth everywhere in France. Some of these communities bear the brunt however, as they suffer from low levels of education and jobs previously accessible to schoolleavers now require high school + 2 years of college.The 'headscarf' law was not directly related to terrorism - but was justified by the principle of a 'secular state'. Racism and the 'clash of cultures' was clearly a motivating factor in some of its supporters though.
--Slow Down Cowboy! Slashdot requires you to wait longer between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.[ Parent ]
Re:It's not the French(Score:2)
by Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) * <seebert@seeberfamily.org> on 2005.11.10 7:41 (#13993125) (http://www.informationr.us/ Last Journal: 2005.11.22 5:13)
These communities are now largely second gen immigrants from Arab North Africa, but also sub-saharan africa. So they are mostly french in nationality anyway. I don't consider 6th generation Americans to be Kwakiutal merely because they were born here- nationality is about more than where you were born. But I've seen something else that convinces me that this is about other things- for the first time last night, on a rerun of a comedy news network program, I heard about the police murders that started all of this.
--If you don't like the reaction- don't do the action. Isaac Newton applied to ethics.[ Parent ]
Re:It's not the French(Score:1)
by mercedo (822671) * on 2005.11.10 0:48 (#13989225) (http://www.blogger.com/profile/11854854 Last Journal: 2005.11.27 9:09)
How many generations do we have to take to be a part of the community after we immigrated from other countries? First generations were born in other countries and immigrated -they are not accustomed to the culture of the countries they immigrated, then second generations were born in the country but because their parents are from abroad, they are usually familiar with both the country they were born and the country their parents were from. Then how about third generations? Both they and their parents were born in the country, for them the country of their grandparents have been only told in a story, and are not familiar to them at all.
Anyway it takes some generations to be a part of the community they immigrated.
If most of the rioters were from first generations, they might not be a French, but still they have stayed, learned, workd in France, so they are a part of people in France anyway. Some of them will take root in French society sooner or later, and the concept of France we might have thought will change sooner or later too.
--Ancient Greek Philosophers -18c Enlightenment Thinkers -Slashdotters[ Parent ]
Re:It's not the French(Score:2)
by Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) * <seebert@seeberfamily.org> on 2005.11.10 7:44 (#13993142) (http://www.informationr.us/ Last Journal: 2005.11.22 5:13)
They're mainly 2nd Generation- and France is particularily anti-assimilation, so they haven't been assimilated into French culture very successfully. Worse yet- this all started because the cops decided it would be easier to shoot than to catch some criminals from this subset of French society.
--If you don't like the reaction- don't do the action. Isaac Newton applied to ethics.[ Parent ]
Re:It's not the French(Score:1)
by eglamkowski (631706) <eglamkowski@noSpaM.angelfire.com> on 2005.11.10 8:53 (#13993711) (http://www.angelfire.com/nj/eglamkowski Last Journal: 2005.11.24 4:05)
I posted elsewhere but you might not see it - let's recall that many on the left having been telling us for years that the USA now represents the modern crusader state, the heirs of the historical christian crusader of the 11th and 12th centuries. And that this crusader heritage is one of the reasons the arabs hate us so much these days.If the arabs really have that cultural memory and hatred of the crusader history, why in the world would arab muslims living in france even WANT to assimilate, since france was the ORIGINAL crusader state?If this is not an issue in france, then we must also reject the notion that arabs hate the US because we are the (supposed) inheritors of the crusader legacy.Either they remember and hate the crusades and crusaders, or it's no longer an issue. Which is it?
--Government IS the problem.[ Parent ]
Re:It's not the French(Score:2)
by Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) * <seebert@seeberfamily.org> on 2005.11.11 2:50 (#13999291) (http://www.informationr.us/ Last Journal: 2005.11.22 5:13)
If the arabs really have that cultural memory and hatred of the crusader history, why in the world would arab muslims living in france even WANT to assimilate, since france was the ORIGINAL crusader state? True enough- I hadn't thought of that. Though- one would question the wish to emigrate to France to begin with...but I guess that's exactly what these youth are questioning, they're rebelling just as much against their parent's betrayal of Islam by moving there as they are against the French Government.Either they remember and hate the crusades and crusaders, or it's no longer an issue. Which is it? It could be one of those generational flip-flop things that is so common with Baby Boomers and the children of Baby Boomers throughout the world: Could it be that it didn't matter to their parents, but the 2nd generation French-African-Arabs have latched onto that hatred as a part of their cultural identity?
--If you don't like the reaction- don't do the action. Isaac Newton applied to ethics.[ Parent ]